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pockettopotherion [2018/12/08 04:27] – [Paperless Survey] Notify intention to change page brucemuttonpockettopotherion [2025/12/27 04:06] (current) – [Data Transfer from PocketTopo to Therion] Remove obsolete cross section comment brucemutton
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-[[start]]>>[[do]]>>[[paperless]] +[[start]]>>[[do]]>>[[paperless]]>>[[pockettopotherion]]
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-8 December 2018: \\ +
-I'm about to make this page generally applicable to paperless surveying, creating sub-pages specific to data collection for Therion using distos, and PocketTopo, TopoDroid applications.  Other pages can be added in future.  Much of the PocketTopo information below on station numbering and survey legs seems to be needlessly complicated, or just wrong, so it will probably get deleted in due course. Changes will probably be made sporadically.  If you have any changes you'd like to see, let me know via the forum.  \\ +
-Bruce Mutton +
- +
-=====Paperless Survey===== +
-Here are some ideas that are developing as I try out our DistoX and PocketTopo with Therion. (See http://therion.speleo.sk/workflow.php and follow the relevant links) This page assumes you have some familiarity with DistoX, PocketTopo and the contents of the respective manuals.\\ +
- +
-As an alternative you might like to view the Cave Surveying Group [[http://cp.cavesurveying.org.uk/index.php/articles/3-therion-tutorial|Therion and DistoX Training Course Guide]] which has more complete instructions and sample data for you to practise with. +
- +
-**Disclaimer:** I have no experience or qualifications in paperless cave surveying.  I bought a DistoX, borrowed a PDA, and now I toss them into my cave bag and take them to the furtherest reaches of our current exploits.  We are stumbling along with the process, and so far it's working out OK.  These are some rules that I'm making up for myself to make sure it really does live up to the promise of being faster and easier than scratching on a piece of paper, even if we do pick up 10x more detail... +
- +
-I welcome any insights you may have.  Add them to this page. +
- +
-=====DistoX & PocketTopo > Therion===== +
-For PocketTopo 1.22, 1.34-1.36 and Therion 5.3+ \\ +
- +
-Some ideas to minimise confusion and data loss. +
- +
-====DistoX and Survey Sequence==== +
-===DistoX usage in general=== +
-  *Remember (distoX1) that each button has at least two functions, one when it is pressed for a short time only, the other when it is pressed and held.  Taking shots requires that the DIST button be pressed and released straight away.  This is a silent process.  Only after the distoX has determined the success or failure of the shot will a sound be made. +
-  *For DistoX2, it is better to press+hold the DIST button, as you are less likely to shake the device right when it is trying to stabilise the sensors for measurement. +
-  *The above is almost impossible while wearing gloves and with the DistoX in a transparent drybag.  Solutions are; a self adhesive raised dot on the DIST button, or put a rubber band around the distoX over top of the DIST button, before you put it in a dry-bag, so you can locate the button by touch. +
-  *It is normal to use DistoX with diplay up. But if you'll use it with display on left side if the station is below DistoX, on right side if above, etc., you may use [[http://cachtice.speleo.sk/laser/|the target for DistoX]]. +
- +
-===DistoX with PDA=== +
-  * When arriving at a station take all the splay shots (what used to be LRUD) BEFORE taking shots to the next station. Make sure the pda/person booking has recorded points and knows what they are after every 2 or 3 splay shots BEFORE taking any more shots. +
- +
-  * When taking shots, imagine you are the pda operator trying to progress the drawing based on what you have already done. For large passages, chambers or wherever you are inspired to collect lots of detail, this might be something like; +
-  - **define cross section** It it important to do it first, because all measured splay shots will define only the cross-section and nothing else. It prevent you from mess if too many splay shots was measured before. Ie for a quadrilateral section shape, this would be the four corners. For an arbitrary shape take maybe 8 shots around the passage section.  (The 'to station' for these shots would be a - (a dash) for wall shapes and . (a dot) for "in cave" features (blocks, pits, chimneys, ...) for in Therion) +
-  - **define passage plan shape** generally along the line where the floor meets the wall generally in the direction the survey is proceeding.  This could extend to picking up the ceiling if it is significantly different to the floor.  (The 'to station' for these shots would be a - (a dash) in Therion – when implemented) +
-  - **define important plan features** (edge of water, pits, speleothems, rigging or large rocks etc).  (The 'to station' for these shots shots would be a . ( a dot) in Therion– when implemented) +
-  - **define passage extended elevation shape** (long section) shape. Pick up general changes in floor and ceiling gradient or steps from the previous station towards the next station (unless already picked up). (The 'to station' for these shots would be a - (a dash) in Therion – when implemented) +
-  - **define important extended elevation features** (ledges, pits, speleothems, rigging or large rocks etc).  (The 'to station' for these shots shots would be a . ( a dot) in Therion– when implemented) +
- +
- +
-  * For smaller or relatively featureless passages the process can be simplified. +
-  * To separate each of the above groups of splay shots, you may like to take a short (+-0.2m) dummy reading, horizontal-ish to, say, your hand. This can provide the PDA person with a clear indicator within the data table that a new group has started.  Recent enhancements in PocketTopo that help identify which survey data refers to which survey leg tend to make this unnecessary however. +
-  *Three (successful) shots to the same place means it's a survey leg, and the pda assumes you will now move to that place.+
  
 +=====PocketTopo and Therion=====
 +Refer to this wiki's [[contrib:complimentarycaveapps#pockettopo|PocketTopo page]] for summary details and reasons why you might choose PocketTopo to collect cave survey data and sketches.
 ====PDA Booking==== ====PDA Booking====
 ==ALWAYS when stop sketching switch PocketTopo to cave map view mode (middle icon) to avoid unwanted creating of accidental lines near borders of sketching area!== ==ALWAYS when stop sketching switch PocketTopo to cave map view mode (middle icon) to avoid unwanted creating of accidental lines near borders of sketching area!==
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 2. Main reasons to start a new file are when a new days survey is started, a new survey is starting in a different location, or if the plan or elevation centrelines start overlapping (causing the sketching to become difficult).  2. Main reasons to start a new file are when a new days survey is started, a new survey is starting in a different location, or if the plan or elevation centrelines start overlapping (causing the sketching to become difficult). 
 This way the centrelines of other surveys remain visible and only the sketches of the currently open file can be seen (reduces confusion).  It also reduces the chance of accidentally changing the data from a previous days survey.\\ This way the centrelines of other surveys remain visible and only the sketches of the currently open file can be seen (reduces confusion).  It also reduces the chance of accidentally changing the data from a previous days survey.\\
- 
-The definition of 'series' in the next two sections is quite restrictive, and in practice I ignore it, without I think, many consequences. 
-  
-==PocketTopo Station Numbering== 
-  *The logic of PocketTopo numbering follows the so-called "Toporobot method". You may find the description of this method here:\\ 
-        *[[http://tinyurl.com/yln45n8|history of Toporobot and several recomendations]]\\ 
-        *[[http://tinyurl.com/yefkbtr|Toporobot Method French version]]\\ 
-        *[[http://tinyurl.com/yc9x3df|Toporobot Method German version]]\\ 
-        *[[http://tinyurl.com/yhsjpwr|Google Translated EN version -> Manual -> Toporobot method]]\\ 
-        *The cave survey is divided into a number of "series", one or more for each survey trip. Each series has its own number beginning 1, 2, //m//... Each series starts with 0 and continues 1, 2, 3, ... It means, the first station of first series has number 1.0, then 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 etc, the second series 2.0 and then 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 and so on.  
-        *The station label //m//.0 is only used when starting at a previously unsurveyed location.  If you are starting from an existing station, you use that stations name, then the next station is //m//.1, where //m// is the number of the next series. 
-        *Each series needs to be stored in it's own separate file. ie You use Menu.File.New when you need to start a new series. 
- 
-==PocketTopo Survey Loops and Connections== 
-I break these rules (for numbering and series) regularly, and don't seem to suffer too many consequences.  PocketTopo is getting better (1.36) but is perhaps helpful to know where it has come from. 
- 
-  *The series MUST NOT cross itself. This means that loops can ONLY be formed at the start or end of a series.  In PocketTopo you must divide surveys in a similar way, and start a new file for each series.\\   
- 
-  *The series are linked at start or end points. That is, each series can ONLY attach to the start or end point of a different series, or to somewhere in the middle of itself. A series can also start or end without attaching to another series (but must be attached at one end if there are more than one series in the cave, unless of course you know the co-ordinates for a point in the 'disconnected' series). 
- 
-  *This means that each survey station has one and only one number/name/label as far as PocketTopo is concerned (this can be relaxed once you get the data into Therion). 
- 
- 
-{{:paperless:toporsurveycrossing.png?250|How to cross a survey 'series'}} 
-{{:paperless:toporsurveyloops.png?450|How to join up all the survey 'series'}} 
- 
-This is why series 4 (yellow) ends when it gets to station 1.4, and continues as series 5.  Similarly for series 7 (green) to series 12, and series 8 (purple) to series 9. 
- 
-As mentioned above, the rules above on station numbering, loops and connections seem to be overly restrictive and in my experience PocketTopo works just fine 98% of the time when i ignore them. 
  
 ===PocketTopo on Trimble Recon=== ===PocketTopo on Trimble Recon===
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  right soft button restores File Explorer   right soft button restores File Explorer 
  
-  *Within PocketTopo, all files (series) stored in the same folder relate to the SAME CAVE. The folders MUST BE created in root of directory structure.+  *Within PocketTopo, all files stored in the same folder relate to the SAME CAVE. The folders MUST BE created in root of directory structure.
  
   *Note that the Recon (or PocketTopo?) often displays all recent files in the same window (UNLIKE typical desktop/laptop behaviour).  So be careful.   *Note that the Recon (or PocketTopo?) often displays all recent files in the same window (UNLIKE typical desktop/laptop behaviour).  So be careful.
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   *__Before you start surveying__, use //PocketTopo.File.NewCave// then...   *__Before you start surveying__, use //PocketTopo.File.NewCave// then...
-     *Make a note of <prefix> in the PocketTopo 'Actual trip' data.  (As PocketTopo cannot use alpha prefixes or series names, it is much simplar to adopt a survey prefix that matches the series number) +     *Make a note of <prefix> in the PocketTopo 'Actual trip' data. 
-     *First station for each trip set to 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 as appropriate (ie the series number or prefix)+     *First station for each trip set to 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 as appropriate (ie the survey number or prefix)
      *Note Survey team members and roles      *Note Survey team members and roles
      *(If you edit this information after you have done some survey shots, it will not be associated with those shots already completed - you can manually over-ride this once you get the data into Therion however).      *(If you edit this information after you have done some survey shots, it will not be associated with those shots already completed - you can manually over-ride this once you get the data into Therion however).
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   *Remember to tidy up any data table comments and drawings before transferring data from the pda (Older PocketTopo versions only allow drawing modifications when used on a touch-screen device).   *Remember to tidy up any data table comments and drawings before transferring data from the pda (Older PocketTopo versions only allow drawing modifications when used on a touch-screen device).
-     *Cross sections: Stations and splay legs visible in PocketTopo sections are not transferred to Therion (Older PocketTopo versions only), so I work around this by sketching over them and clearly labelling them, so that they will be visible in the Xtherion drawing editor. 
   *Open PocketTopo & Export filenames as follows;   *Open PocketTopo & Export filenames as follows;
      *//PocketTopo.File.Save//: //<Prefix>-<PassageName>.top// (native pocketTopo file)      *//PocketTopo.File.Save//: //<Prefix>-<PassageName>.top// (native pocketTopo file)
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-  * If you have used an alpha survey prefix, add it to each survey centerline with   //station-names <prefix> []//  in the //*.th// file (not needed if you adopt the pockettopo series number as the prefix).   +  * If you have used an alpha survey prefix, add it to each survey centerline with   //station-names <prefix> []//  in the //*.th// file (not needed if you adopt the pockettopo survey number as the prefix).   
     This saves a lot of typing. See [[drawingchecklist#scrap|Drawing Checklist > Scrap]] eg     This saves a lot of typing. See [[drawingchecklist#scrap|Drawing Checklist > Scrap]] eg
       station-names AA[]       station-names AA[]
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   - If the connection works but no data is transferred, try to switch the Disto to calibration mode using the commands in the calibration menu.  If calibration mode can be switched, this confirms data can be sent from the pda to the disto, and so the lack of communication in the other direction is indeed an anomaly.  I had this situation with lots of data stored, and toggling silent mode on and off resolved it.  Only took 6 weeks to figure it out :-? )   - If the connection works but no data is transferred, try to switch the Disto to calibration mode using the commands in the calibration menu.  If calibration mode can be switched, this confirms data can be sent from the pda to the disto, and so the lack of communication in the other direction is indeed an anomaly.  I had this situation with lots of data stored, and toggling silent mode on and off resolved it.  Only took 6 weeks to figure it out :-? )
  
-==== Troubleshooting Erroneous Measurements ==== 
-These are more warnings to be cautious and observant, rather that troubleshooting as such. 
-===Battery Changes=== 
-ALWAYS carry out the accuracy  test described  here [[http://paperless.bheeb.ch/download/DistoXAccuracyPrecautions.pdf]] after changing batteries (or charging a DistoX2) and before the start of each days surveying.  If you do have a small discrepancy in compass or clino and you are too lazy to recalibrate, you can always use the calibrate statement to compensate 
-<code> 
-calibrate compass 0.5 # half of largest difference in accuracy test 
-calibrate clino 0.2 
-</code> 
-Think carefully about the sign of the correction! 
- 
-I have made a spreadsheet to help with this  [TO DO post the spreadsheet] 
- 
-===Distance=== 
-We've noticed that spurious distance measurements are more common than we would like, maybe 2% of shots??  All of the ones we have noticed are more than the actual distance measured, usually by more than a factor of 2 or 3 (a typical case would be a distance of about 10m measured as either ~50m or ~80m for a sequence of 5 shots, with the latter two pointing at a completely different target - and in a passage where we could see no more than 15m), but there was one case in a wide open passage where ~15m was measured as 25m (and we are sure we were not missing the target). \\ 
- 
-This can manifest a little bit like the sticking of compass or clino (see below) except that the erroneous measurements are usually not identical - so leading you to believe it is a normal measurement discrepancy. 
-One explanation is that the laser is bouncing off nearby walls.  This is certainly sometimes the case, although I can only remember one instance where this was happening on a repeatable basis.  Moving the target slightly can solve this issue. \\ 
-I suspect this problem is more frequent when the batteries are getting low, down to their last 1000 or so shots (although Beat has assured me that this is unlikely).  Note that the distoX battery indicator only deviates from 100% when there are perhaps 10 or 20 shots left (when you are using lithium batteries as recommended) so unfortunately it is not a useful indication of battery health. 
  
-===Compass and Clino=== 
-Both the compass and clino sensors seem to stick sometimes.  If you see that the last several compass or clino readings are identical regardless of the orientation of the distoX, then you can be sure they have 'stuck'.  A very gentle tap with your finger usually fixes this (remember it is a delicate device).\\ 
-Ferrous objects and magnetic fields will affect the compass of course.  Take care not to use the distoX within say 300mm of your light, SRT gear, bolts etc. 
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